Re: Length of V'Ger vs. Spacedock

On Fri, 18 Jan 2002, Weyoun the Dancing Borg wrote:

> > > So (apparently) did the Borg.
> >
> > Actually no. The Borg did not go up against, nor disable the actual
> > planetary defenses of Earth. All the Borg did was fight
> > intercepting starships, and the Mars Perimeter defense craft.
> > And who knows how well the Borg in BoBW pt. II would've done without
> > having assimilated Picard and his knowledge. Perhaps the E-D's deflector
> > weapon would've ended the story right there? Perhaps the fleet at Wolf-395
> > would've severly damaged the cube, enough to allow the planetary defenses
> > around Earth to finish the job?
>
> that isnt th epoint;. we saw the borg cube in ORBIT of earth an NOTHIGN was
> intercepting it. ar eyou saying that all ther eis to defend earth are 3
> boxes that move fast?

We saw nothing of the sort. What we see in the viewscreen's intital picture is a full spherical Earth with a tiny cube in front of that. If you can see the full Earth like that, then you're at the very least in a high geosynchronous orbit. But they could've been even further away than that. So any actual defenses, Spacedock, the orbital shipyards, orbital weapons platforms, planetary shields, ect would not likely have come immediately into play until the Borg cube got closer. At anyrate, the Enterpise made the intercept, which precluded anything else getting involved sonce the cube actually reversed direction to attack the starship.

> > > So did the Breen. Or at least survived long enough to wipe out the
> > > Federation HQ.
> >
> > Actually the Breen fleet did not survive their attack on Earth, and there
> > is no evidence that they destroyed more than a few buildings and damaged
> > one landmark (the Golden Gate Bridge). So what, if anything did the Breen
> > gain? Psychological damage? Hardly. The Breen lost hundreds, maybe
> > THOUSANDS of ships. And for what? To trash a few buildings! Hardly worth
> > it to me.
>
> Whoever said hundreds or thousands of ships? that was never said. the breen
> wouldnt sacrifice thousands fo ships to knock down a building.

But apparently they did. You're trying to ignore the fact that we've seen fleets of hundreds, and even perhaps fleets of tens of thousands of starships fielded by both sides during the course of the war. If even one fleet was guarding Earth, which we know one was (the 3rd fleet as per "Favor the Bold"), then the Breen fleet would have to be at least strong enough to deal with between 100-300 starships, and maybe even many times that by close to the war's end.

> the breen dont use cloaking devices as far as we know. So a fleet of
> "thousands" (as you said) of ships, uncloacked, managed to make it ALL
> the way to earth, without being detected?
>
> AND hit starfleet headquarters no less!

Everyone seemed suprised by the Breen attack, apparently they did make all the way there, though the exact circumstances were not made apparent. But the Breen sneak attack was handled far better by Star Fleet that our own miltary has handled real life threats. The Japanese certainly did not have cloaking devices for their fleet in the attack on Pearl Harbor, yet they managed to get close enough to launch aircraft, and destroy the core of the Pacific fleet. What did the Breen gain? They blew up a few buildings and damaged a major landmark, period.

> Do yout hink that the 600 starships in Sacrifice of Angels coul dhave
> gone to Cardassia Prime and beat them?
>
> We saw the Cardassiand efenses in What you Leave behind. Granted, it was the
> entire dominion'd fleet, but there were ship yards, and PDS systems. Earth
> has never had anyhting other than space dock in orbi, and we have no
> evidence of Surface to Space projectiles or anythign.

What the f--k are you babbling about? This is just stupidity. The ODS of the Cardassians did not come online until "Tears of The Prophets". And we know that a combined fleet of Federation and Klingon ships went deep into Cardassian space to destroy Dominion shipyards (which they apparently did with success), and an even smaller force of klingon BoPs penetrated Cardassian space to destroy the Monak shipyards even later on.

Could a fleet of 600 some odd starships have gone to Cardassia Prime and have beaten the defenses there? No. Just like the Breen fleet was wiped out and only doing a tiny amount of damage before they were. This question is just just pure illogic and stupidity on your part.

As for the Earth not having anything other than Spacedock in orbit... Well, you're ignorance is showing here. Chekov in ST:TMP quite clearly states "All planetary defense systems have just gone inoperative!"

If there are no planetary defenses for Earth, as you claim, then why is Chekov saying that there are?

We have also seen many times that Earth has a fairly extensive orbital infrastucture as part of the San Francisco shipyards, which among other things include the drydocks and orbital offices as seen in ST:TMP, and "Generations". We have also seen the Earth Station McKinley (seen in "Family" [TNG]). If Earth's orbital infrastructure is as extensive as Mars' Utopia Planita shipyards, then there are dozens apon dozens of drydocks, and large orbital stations (see VGR's "Relativity" for how extensive this can be).
-Mike Received on Fri Jan 18 2002 - 13:16:58 PST